Politics

LIVE COVERAGE: Sheriff's debate

By Bill Moss, Published: April 17, 2018

Opening remarks: Griffin goes first, opens with his standard minibio that he's served the public for 35 years (fire and rescue), the last 26 in law enforcement, too. He would redeploy some of the brass to the streets and have them involved in the communities they cover.

McDonald touts his record of reform andreducing crime, reforming the department after Sheriff Rick Davis resigned amid a scandal.

First question:

What's the status of the $20 million range. Why not use Edneyville training center.

"That's not a done deal," McDonald said of the training center and firing range proposed for Saluda. "Here's what the problem. We're asking our men and women to do more and more and be trained to a high level of efficiency ... They may not respond the way they need to respond."

Griffin said he's trained across the U.S. In Alabama, he saw an idea of a "bare bones" training center that mocks a village, with a post office, houses. We can employ different weapon system besides the live fire," he said. "If we do this this right we  can create a village that becomes a multipurpose training center," use for fire and EMS, too. "If we decide we've got to have transparent studies that shows the real effect on the quality of life of ev that might be around or affected by that. ... There are a lot of options we really need to slow down and discuss and choose what's right."

Rebuttal:

"It's not necessarily a done deal. We've had offers from citizens in the community to help us find an area," McDonald said. The training needs continue.

Griffin: "We have to have ongoing training. It's got to be realistic, it's got to be dynamic."

SECOND QUESTION:

What plans to you have for school safety?

McDonald: Started the adopt a school program, where deputies dropped in on schools, ate lunch, checked in. In 2016 deputies made 3,747 random visits. After Parkland, he stepped up the drop-in visits and also paid off-duty officers to increase those. "We're wearing our men and women on their off days to be able to cover these schools," he said. He said he had received confirmation that County Manager Steve Wyatt's recommended budget would put deputies in all schools — without a tax increase.

Griffin: It has to be a priority. "There is no bankful of gold anywhere in the world that's worth more than one child is." Deputies in schools was a topic four years ago, he said. He recommends practicing lockdowns, he's for SROs in schools, protecting children and serving as a role model. "We've got to get back to looking at school safety realistically" and harden each school against attacks.

McDonald: Safety starts with a mindset. "It doesn't matter how much money yu spend or how many people you put in there if the people don't buy into and use the system consistently."

QUESTION 3: Arming teachers.

McDonald: No. 1, it's not legal in North Carolina. He's heard from teachers who oppose it and those with conceal-carry permits who are silling to.  "I think there's a place for that. I think we ought to be able to give them that opportunity."

Griffin: "It's one thing to carry a gun and it's one thing to have the mindset to use that gun in deadly force." It would have to be a collaborative effort of all parties, for training, vetting. "I do agree that there are those that are capable of doing that." And that was allowed, he would have no problem with them defending classrooms.

Question 4

Why doesn't sheriff provide animal enforcement inside cities.

"Because it's illegal," McDonald said. A citizen claimed sheriff's deputies were "kidnapping animals." Commissioners were willing to pass an ordinance but the cities passed on the cost of picking up the cost. When he came into office, he asked the cities again. "I think the county and the municipalities would be better off if we did it all." He doesn't have the money, he said. "The bottom line is this has nothing to do with my stance. It really rests on the Board of Commissioners and I support why they took the position that they did."

Griffin: He would work out an agreement "to where we could enforce these animal enforcement laws" inside city. The cities add a significant amount of money to the tax base. "They're already contributing a significant amount to the county budget overall."

Question: How well does the sheriff's office work with Latino community?

McDonald: "My commitment to anybody who lives in this county. what, i don;t ask abut that, my deputies don't ask about that when we do our job."

Griffin: "There are industries that would fold without that community. I would actually like to establish a liaison for the Latino community. We have to earn trust in this communities. ... so they can help us  point out the bad actors in their community."

Question 7: What's your position on 287g, the program in which local law officers work with ICE.

Griffin: He would need to study it more. He wants to catch "bad actors." "I don't want to use it as a tactic that's going to intimidate the Latino community that this county relies so heavily on."

McDonald: "Obviously Mr. Griffin doesn't understand. It has nothing do with the roundup this weekdn. That was federal officers taking care of federal laws and federal warants." The sheriff's uses it in the jail to run records of people already arrested to identify immigrants that have a record.

After the question about 287g, a program widely mistrusted by immigration activists, the Latino protesters in the back of the room made a little noise, held up signs and walked out.

QUESTION: How much have you raised?

Neither knows what the exact number is.

What's your position on body cameras:

McDonald: He does not support it for the sheriff's office. "They take us down a slippery slope without thinking about the ramifications." Body cameras can cause officers to second-guess. The camera can't hear what the officer can hear. Studies show that officers in some cases were a lot less pro-active. "If the state were to mandate it I would have to. If my deputies came to me and asked for it I would do that." He trusts officers without use of body cameras.

Griffin: "Transparency for the public, safety for the officers. I have spoken to many officers that used body cams and the vast majority are pro-camera. We've already got cameras in the car. ... I have one case right now where we're going to use body cam footage in a homicide trial. We want to prosecute these domestic violence cases ... It's often difficult to be able to portray to the court such an emotionally charged situation. Many times this footage will allow us to prosecute those very cases. It's basically a fundamental technology that we need to employ here."

McDonald: "We were making cases and getting them to hold up in court long before body cameras came along." At times body cams make the officer look like he's done something wrong. The footage can be misleading.

The sheriff's forum is wrapping up with little fireworks. Both came across as experienced lawmen, who are not that far apart on the basics. They differ on body cams — McDonald against, Griffin for — and the law enforcement training center. McDonald again touted his reforms; Griffin said he would make sure the command staff and rank and file did not have to put put loyalty above performance.

McDonald said in his closing statement that many of those who support Griffin "worked to subvert" reforms the sheriff's office needed to make.

Griffin promised "community involvement officers" who would know the people and police effectively. Joint enforcement teams have fallen away, he said. We have to have this partnership for more efficient law enforcement. He promised less turnover and more job security, again pledged to use body cameras.

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